Compra Conjunta [CANCELADO/CANCELED] M9706 Reproductor: Clon Pioneer LX500 / Oppo 203 Alta calidad (HQ)

Kikatom

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16 Marzo 2020
Having not heard back from the seller or from @Tocinillo for a week since I tried to communicate with Rong through Paypal last Saturday, I have escalated the dispute with Paypal today.
 

Tocinillo

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18 Agosto 2018

Kikatom

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16 Marzo 2020
What I meant is from you in case you had been able to contact the seller and he had replied to you about his intentions.
I have started the process with Paypal when you advised me to last Saturday (and informed you of it), and I left to the seller a week to reply before escalating to Paypal. That's all.

As I said, I don't see any reason to pay for the return of the product, first because this is not the product I have ordered, so given that it's a mistake from Rong, he should pay for the return himself, second because I'm certainly not returning the product, even at my cost, until / unless he agrees to a full refund, which he hasn't.

Apparently he is even asking other users such as @Vertex to pay for more shipping costs, when DHL says they don't have the product? This doesn't make any sense. Initially, I was ready to give him the benefit of the doubt, but now I'm pretty unhappy with the situation.

Frankly I am also disappointed to see that you keep doing business with this seller regarding group buys for other models before making sure that he has taken care of every single one of us who have been abused by at best miscommunication, at worst fraud on his part.

It looks like you don't really care about what happens, and life just goes on as normal for the other products.

That's not good. I don't know which kind of miscommunication went on exactly between you and him, but if the seller was in good faith, he should have refunded us and apologised.

Given that, at this stage, he hasn't apologised and hasn't refunded any of us, or even taken the time to reply, the least you could do, now that you know how this seller behaves when things go wrong, is stop promoting his products until he has made things good to the users from this site who have ordered a product based on your description and received a completely different one.

Do you not care giving this seller business when he is apparently defrauding some AVPasion members? At the time, you didn't know that he could lie to you, but now you know that he does: he told you there was a VFD in the 9706, but there isn't one, at least when you order it with the Oppo f/w. Still, you don't mind going on and sending buyers to him? That doesn't make any sense either.
 
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Tocinillo

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18 Agosto 2018
We are not doing business with anyone, we just take care of giving the information, organizing the groups and that's it.

The seller wins customers, you earn $100 off and we gain web visibility, traffic and YouTube subscriptions.

Someone think that I have full communication with the seller or something like that. Sometimes he takes 5 days to answer me. And yes, we send 100 people/month...and he takes 5 days to answer me.

Do you know what is the problem? That this product is only sold by him worldwide. He has a total monopoly. You buy it from him or you don't buy. That's simple.

There are certain things that clearly shouldn't be like this, like the VFD display. Others such as the remote or the size of the box were not very well understood because their English is terribly bad. And others directly is also a bit of our fault (of the users), since in the post there were images that were seen to be the size of the M9702 or do not have insulation in some parts. And that's not that he's lying, because he's selling the same player on Taobao too (with m9702 cover, same remote, etc.) ... and for $600.

As I said, that's what Paypal is for. They will tell you who is right and who is not and who should pay the shipping costs. Most likely they will return all your money and the shipping costs will go halfway between you and seller. I do not know.
 

Kikatom

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16 Marzo 2020
I don’t buy from a seller who lies and doesn’t make up for their mistakes.

I don’t think you have full communication with the seller, but you are choosing to keep sending business to him when he isn’t taking care of members who have been missold a product.

i don’t understand why you think it’s fine to keep sending buyers to him, given that he lied to you about the VFD, at the very least, and refuses to refund us or even reply to us. I am certainly not happy with this. The next time something like this happens, you won’t be able to say that you didn’t know he could lie to you, or not refund customers who have been sent the wrong product.

As I said, at the very least, I would put the next group buy on hold, or at least inform people of the way the seller is behaving regarding this group buy, instead of saying that all is fine and the seller is trustworthy. Until he has refunded us, he is not trustworthy.
 
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Tocinillo

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18 Agosto 2018
Because he sells 10/15 different models (M9701, M7702, M9702, M9706...).

When you uploaded the pictures, inmediatly I told to seller that's not the product he sends me. I also asked about the 100$ discount, etc. He doesn't want nothing.

So, at this point, I sent a message saying that we were not going to organize any more purchases of 9706 and that he must solve the problem of the 6 users who already bought it and they make a refund on PayPal.

M9702 is another machine. If the seller at any time does not send the players or the replacements of the defective ones or change important aspects of the player, the same will happen: we will not organize more groups.

But ATM, the seller always been trusted, at least with the M9702. Even with M9706 the story is not over. Maybe he'll refund all money.
 

Kikatom

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16 Marzo 2020
Given the way he is handling this, it is debatable (not that he is selling different models, but that he is trustworthy). We’ll see how this is resolved for everyone, but it’s a shame to have to escalate the dispute to Paypal in order to get a response.
 

Vertex

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28 Mayo 2019
Given the way he is handling this, it is debatable (not that he is selling different models, but that he is trustworthy). We’ll see how this is resolved for everyone, but it’s a shame to have to escalate the dispute to Paypal in order to get a response.
What did you write to PayPal for escalating? I set to your PM, PLEASE check it.
 
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Vertex

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28 Mayo 2019
Hi, I received an email from PayPal that the seller refund $19 and he accepted to refund the $481 once the player returned to him. I already requested from DHL to return the package to the sender address.
 

Kikatom

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16 Marzo 2020
I have received an email from Paypal saying that the seller accepts to refund the $500 ($19+$481) once he receives the unit. However, he did not accept to refund the cost of sending the unit back, or to organise a collection at his cost.

When I go to the DHL website to organise a collection, the cost to return the unit to Hong Kong is £58.78 without insurance. That's around 70 Euros. Given that I have already paid £18 in tax to DHL, we're close to 100 Euros.

There is no way I'm paying 100 Euros because the seller sent the wrong product.

Paypal doesn't offer any choice: you either upload the tracking number, or you cancel the dispute.

So can you suggest a solution?
 

Adjuntos

xasdevis

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Buenas tardes,
yo también recibí el mensaje de los dos reembolsos, el grande cuando llegue el paquete.
No llegué a recibirlo, le dije a DHL que rechazaba la entrega, les llamé y me dijeron que se pondrían en contacto con el vendedor para ver "qué hacer" con el paquete. Por el número de seguimiento veo que se ha enviado a su origen, pero desconozco si habrá nuevos gastos de por medio.
Veremos en los próximos días como evoluciona la cosa.
 

Kikatom

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16 Marzo 2020
I can't do nothing more. I asked several times about this problems but never replies me. The only reply I have is that he can't adjust the price and he doesn't return shipping costs (only in defective players cases).

I told you here --> https://www.avpasion.com/foro/t/can...x500-oppo-203-alta-calidad-hq.1426/post-42915
Yes, you also said that the return would cost 30 euros, and it costs more than twice that amount...

Honestly, if you had stopped sending people to this guy until we had been taken care of by the seller, I'd understand, but it really looks like you don't care about what happened and are happy to just go on as if nothing happened.

Do you think it's normal that I have to pay 100 Euros because the seller sent a model different to the one we ordered?

I understand it's not your responsibility, I just don't understand why you keep sending people to this guy while he isn't making things good. It's bad for his reputation, and it's not good for yours either.

The product is not defective, it's the wrong product. That's exactly the same thing. The seller is responsible, not me, so he should pay for the return costs. There is no discussion about it. It's simply WRONG to ask the buyer to pay for the return costs when you sent the wrong product. In fact, I shouldn't even have to wait for him to get the product back to get a refund.

I am disappointed that you are not doing anything to help further. You are clearly siding with the seller on this, and don't seem to care about those of us who have to pay more money in order to get our $500 back, without any guarantee that the product will arrive or that the seller will refund me. If he's lied once, why wouldn't he lie more?
 

Tocinillo

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18 Agosto 2018
I've already answered all that before. Exactly the same and in detail. I will not be repeating the same thing over and over again because you disagree.

I have already explained that we will continue to organize group purchases of the M9702 model. If the seller ever fails, doesn't respond, or lies someone, I'll do exactly the same thing I did with the M9706: don't make any more purchases and don't recommend the seller to anyone. But at the moment it is fulfilling.

Sorry for what happened to you, but as explained in the main post this is not Amazon. There are (small) risks of something going wrong and it is your sole responsibility, not mine. That is why we are so transparent always putting the number of players successfully purchased, the problems, the replacements, the nicknames of all the buyers, etc.

PS: You don't know nothing about if I'm doing (or not) things to help customers. I sent almost 6 emails to the seller asking about you, if he can accept partial refund, etc. Nothing worked. What do you want I do?
 

Kikatom

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16 Marzo 2020
I appreciate what you did, but as I said I would have stopped sending customers to this buyer until he had sorted every single one of us. I understand you have a different position, but I still disagree. It might be different products, but it's the same seller.

Sure, there are risks involved, but in this case, you did advertise the wrong product: you showed in your demos, in this thread and you listed the specs of a product that isn't was was sent to us. It's not because you changed the description and the spects to rewrite history that it doesn't mean we were not told the truth. If you have been lied to, as you say you have, I would have expected a more robust reaction. Instead, you're just burying it under the carpet and we end up as collateral damage.

You were in a position to stop sending business to him until he makes things right. You have decided otherwise. Of course, he has no incentive to do the right thing, on the contrary.

I regret it, but I guess there is nothing I can do about it. To me, it just means that you don't care. The guy lies to you, sends us a product that's significantly different to what was advertised, and for you, it's business as usual. Looks like we have a different moral compass.

It's disappointing, but let's leave it there. I wish you could see it from our position, but you clearly can't.

If he lies again, you won't be able to say that you didn't know, blame the language or the miscommunication. Either the guy is dishonest, or you didn't tell us the truth. I guess we'll never know what really happened, but your behaviour suggests that it's your fault, not his, otherwise you could fight for us a bit more forcefully.

I hope the others will get their money back without having to take a further risk and pay more money to try to get a refund.

I haven't decided what I'm going to do, but I'm not paying 100 Euros for nothing, that's for sure. Would you?
 

Tocinillo

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18 Agosto 2018
From the moment you are suggesting that I have had something to do or that it is my fault because I continue to organize purchases of the M9702, I have absolutely nothing more to tell you.

It is unfortunate, dishonest and shameful. Now you can "fight" by yourself with the seller and with Paypal, for my part I will continue to claim the money from the ALL (including you) buyers of the M9706. In the end, as the seller have done before, may even get it back the shipping costs (or part). At that moment you will surely stop thinking that I have something to do with all this.

Last reply from me about this.

PD: I even uploaded a photo where it is clear that I asked him about the VFD and he answered YES.
 

Kikatom

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16 Marzo 2020
What exactly is unfortunate, dishonest and shameful in my post?

My position is VERY clear.

If, as you said many times, including in your last post, the seller lied to you, you agree that we have indirectly been lied to.

You were given wrong information, and we ordered a product based on this wrong information.

Therefore, we should be getting a full refund, and the seller should organise and pay for the return of the product. There is no discussion about it. There is no difference between receiving a defective product and receiving the wrong product, except that in this case the seller knows that the product is wrong, so there is no need for him to test if it is before refunding the shipping costs. It's his mistake, not ours.

And yes, when a seller lies to you, you stop sending business to him until he's made things good regarding the people who have been victims of these lies. It's not an isolated case of a single buyer changing his mind or having problems with the order or the seller. It is six buyers who would not have purchased the product if they had been given the correct description. All of us cancelled our order. Not a single one of us decided to keep the order when they found out that the product was not as described. The seller even refused a partial refund to compensate for the differences.

It's only because you are happily keeping sending business to this seller that I question what happened.

Your position is NOT clear.

1) When you realised that the product we received was not what we ordered, you changed the description of the product in the first post of this thread so that there is no trace of what we were TOLD we were buying. I am sorry, but that is NOT honest. You should have edited the thread to make clear what the differences were, but not delete the evidence that we had been given the wrong information. Luckily, I have saved this information, but really it wasn't a good first reaction. I guess this was to protect yourself, but it's not a cool move.

2) You stated repeatedly that the seller lied to you, yet you are happy to send more potential victims to a dishonest seller, simply because they are buying a different product. Have you at least informed the potential buyers of the M9702 what the seller has sent us the wrong product and is refusing to refund us if we don't pay more (hence increase our risk) before sending the product back?

3) If there is another issue with the seller, what will you say to the buyers of the M9702? With us, it was the first time that the seller wasn't being honest or doing the right thing (he either lied or refused to make things good). The next time, it won't be the first time. What will you tell them? That the seller lied to you before, but I didn't think he would do it again?

Please clarify your position, and it will take away doubts in my mind that you really have nothing to do with this. I'm not saying that you or him did this intentionally. I understand that there has been miscommunication. I am only saying that at the moment, neither of you is doing the right thing. The seller should refund in full and pay for the return shipping costs, and you should stop sending business to him until he's done the right thing.

Anyway, I have told Paypal that I will not pay for the return of the product, so the seller has to organise the return and pay for it. I also said that there was no reason for me to to wait for the product to arrive before I get a refund. I have also asked for the seller to provide full customs information and a correct address (the address he has provided has a post code that is linked to a different address) and to pay for the return costs in advance if he wants me to organise the shipping. I am waiting for a response.

Again, I appreciate your help and everything you've done, but you have to realise that you did not behave properly in this situation.

You can't undo the deleted information in the first post, but you can stop sending business to the seller and fight with us more forcefully.

Until you do, I will see you at the side of a dishonest seller, not at the side of members who have been lied to.

No hard feelings, but still very unhappy about the situation.
 

Adjuntos

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xasdevis

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Muy buenas,
la historia por ahora está así:

El pasado 4 de mayo hablé con DHL, no llegué a recibir el paquete, y les llamé para decir que rechazaba la entrega.
El día 14 por fin se devuelve al remitente.
El 16 me escribe el vendedor, que debe ser mandado a tal dirección etc etc. Yo le respondí que había hablado con DHL para devolver el paquete, que no había llegado a recibirlo, y le pasé los enlaces del número de seguimiento.

Hoy me llega mensaje de paypal recordándome que en 4 días se cierra el caso "debe plantearse elevar este problema a reclamación para asegurarse de que el caso siga cumpliendo los requisitos para que PayPal lo revise".
Según DHL el paquete fue entregado el día 16.
Vuelvo a escribir al vendedor preguntando, pero sin novedad en el frente.

En paypal en el centro de resoluciones el tema sigue "a la espera de la respuesta de la otra parte".

Me gustaría que todo esto terminase bien, aunque no lo está poniendo fácil la verdad.
 

Vertex

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28 Mayo 2019
Very good
the story for now is like this:

On May 4, I spoke with DHL, I did not get to receive the package, and I called them to say that I refused the delivery.
On the 14th it is finally returned to the sender.
On the 16th the seller writes to me, which must be sent to such address etc. etc. I replied that I had spoken with DHL to return the package, that I had not received it, and I passed the links to the tracking number.

Today I get a message from paypal reminding me that in 4 days the case is closed "you should consider raising this problem to a claim to ensure that the case continues to meet the requirements for PayPal to review it".
According to DHL the package was delivered on the 16th.
I write again to the seller asking, but without incident on the front.

In paypal in the resolution center, the issue continues "awaiting the response from the other party".

I wish this all ended well, although the truth is not making it easy for him.
Don't' wait till closed the case you have to escalate the case to Paypal otherwise will lose the case. ِAs for my case I will do that will raising the claim to Paypal.
 

Tocinillo

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18 Agosto 2018
Muy buenas,
la historia por ahora está así:

El pasado 4 de mayo hablé con DHL, no llegué a recibir el paquete, y les llamé para decir que rechazaba la entrega.
El día 14 por fin se devuelve al remitente.
El 16 me escribe el vendedor, que debe ser mandado a tal dirección etc etc. Yo le respondí que había hablado con DHL para devolver el paquete, que no había llegado a recibirlo, y le pasé los enlaces del número de seguimiento.

Hoy me llega mensaje de paypal recordándome que en 4 días se cierra el caso "debe plantearse elevar este problema a reclamación para asegurarse de que el caso siga cumpliendo los requisitos para que PayPal lo revise".
Según DHL el paquete fue entregado el día 16.
Vuelvo a escribir al vendedor preguntando, pero sin novedad en el frente.

En paypal en el centro de resoluciones el tema sigue "a la espera de la respuesta de la otra parte".

Me gustaría que todo esto terminase bien, aunque no lo está poniendo fácil la verdad.
Eleva la queja a PayPal antes de que cierren la posibilidad. Argumenta lo mismo que han comentado aquí y con suerte te devolverán también los portes.

Al otro usuario (@Kikatom) ni le voy a contestar. Deje a propósito la edición del post principal para que pudierais consultarlo para poder adjuntarlo a PayPal, junto con otros posts míos de este hilo también. El tipo se cree que lo dejé sin querer y se ha guardado las fotos como si yo estuviera timando a alguien. A partir de ahora peleate tú con el vendedor y con PayPal, yo voy a seguir intentando arreglarlo con los demás.

Estoy en contacto con el vendedor, elevad las quejas a PayPal. Voy a decirle que devuelva los portes (o al menos todo menos los 30/35€ que suele costar el envío) que sería lo más lógico. O como mucho que os devuelva 450$ (menos los 25 de ida y 25 de vuelta de los paquetes).

Espero que todo salga bien chicos :)
 
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